ARIN PPC at NANOG 60 Notes - 11 February 2014 [Archived]

Opening and Announcements

Speaker: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

[No transcripts available for this segment, please see webcast archive]

John Curran opened the meeting and welcomed those in attendance.

John began the Public Policy Consultation at NANOG 60 by making meeting-related announcements and introducing those at the head table. He reviewed the meeting rules, agenda and the Discussion Guide. At the beginning of the meeting, approximately 50 people were in attendance. Paul Andersen moderated the policy discussions during the event.

[ARIN offered the opportunity for remote participation throughout the meeting. Comments from remote participants are read aloud at the meeting and are integrated into the meeting report. There were 7 registered remote participants.]

Update on Advisory Council Activities

Speaker: John Sweeting, ARIN Advisory Council Chair

Presentation: PDF
[No transcript available for this segment, please see webcast archive]

John Sweeting provided an update on Advisory Council activities. He reviewed the current docket of draft policies and proposals.

• Introduced AC members in the room

• Provided a breakdown of the draft policies and proposals

  • 1 recommended draft policy
  • 8 draft policies
  • 3 proposals

• There will be a room available later for discussion of new policy ideas

There were no comments or questions from the floor at the conclusion of the presentation.

Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2013-8: Subsequent Allocations for New Multiple Discrete Networks

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Scott Leibrand, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal noting that this policy is a recommended draft.

• Advisory Council shepherds: Cathy Aronson, Owen DeLong, and Robert Seastrom
• Introduced on PPML in November 2013 (ARIN-prop-191)
• This draft policy was previously discussed at the ARIN Public Policy Consultation at NANOG 58, 59, and at ARIN 32
• The AC recommended it for adoption in January 2014
• See presentation and transcript links above for details

Scott Leibrand continued with the presentation of the proposal. Scott presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• History and rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• If I need to get connectivity before I get address space, what happens if I can’t get space?
• Need to validate that folks can’t multihome with their existing addresses before we guarantee new space
• Need to add intent language for usage plan on the new allocation
• Bear in mind this is a policy for existing customers, not for new customers
• Need to bear in mind that existing customers might have really high utilization, and that makes it difficult to free up addresses to do what this policy is asking them to do

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2013-7: NRPM 4 (IPv4) Policy Cleanup

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Scott Leibrand, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal.

• Advisory Council shepherds: Scott Leibrand, Kevin Blumberg, and John Springer
• Introduced on PPML in August 2013 (ARIN-prop-190)
• This draft policy was previously discussed at the ARIN Public Policy Consultation at NANOG 59 and.at ARIN 32.
• This has been substantially revised since it was previously presented
• See presentation and transcript links above for details

Scott Leibrand continued with the presentation of the proposal. Scott presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Removing multiple sections of the policy
• Multiple text changes to simplify and increase the clarity of the policy text
• There is another proposal on the docket (2014-4) that impacts this proposal, need to determine how/if to reconcile the two
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• Has staff provided data on the current web hosting company space usage to educate this policy discussion?
• Some of the suggested deletions may still be useful if the language were modified
• Does this remove the ability for ARIN to issue a different size block than initially requested?

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

At the end of discussion, Paul Andersen asked for a show of hands to determine those in favor and those against this becoming a recommended draft policy (remote participants were invited to participate). After the tally was conducted, Paul stated that this information would be provided to the Advisory Council for use in its deliberations.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-1: Out of Region Use

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Scott Leibrand, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal.

• Advisory Council shepherds: Milton Mueller, Stacy Hughes, and Bill Darte
• Introduced on PPML in January 2014 (ARIN-prop-192)
• This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN Public Policy Consultation
• See presentation and transcript links above for details

Scott Leibrand continued with the presentation of the proposal. Scott presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Request for community input – is this policy needed? Should we be limiting out of region use at all.

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• Some of the criteria as written is potentially problematic, specifically as it pertains to billing addresses
• If this policy passes, it doesn’t impact new requests only how existing space usage is measured
• This is not intended to change criteria for requesting space
• This would speed up depletion of IPv4 at ARIN. Not sure ARIN should position itself as a global RIR – this policy opens that door
• Staff analysis may need to be performed about how this aligns with transfer policy.
• Discussion of applicability of policy to IPv6
• Request for staff clarification – Currently staff does ask requestors for information about where the space will be used. How does this policy impact that?

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-2: Improving 8.4 Anti-Flip Language

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Dan Alexander, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal.

• Advisory Council shepherds: Bill Darte and Owen DeLong
• Introduced on PPML in January 2014 (ARIN-prop-194)
• This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN Public Policy Consultation
• See presentation and transcript links above for details

Dan Alexander continued with the presentation of the proposal. Dan presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• This should be focused on the block of space, rather than the organization
• This policy proposal has implications for the Inter-RIR transfer policy

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-3: Remove 8.2 and 8.3 and 8.4 Minimum IPv4 Block Size Requirements

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Dan Alexander, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal.

• Advisory Council shepherds: Owen DeLong and Bill Darte
• Introduced on PPML in January 2014 (ARIN-prop-195)
• This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN Public Policy Consultation
• See presentation and transcript links above for details

Dan Alexander continued with the presentation of the proposal. Dan presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• What are the possible implications of removing the block size requirement on transfers?
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• This is a bad idea, it doesn’t help us move away from IPv4
• Transferring tiny blocks just makes a mess

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-4: Remove 4.2.5 Web Hosting Policy

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: John Springer, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal.

• Advisory Council shepherds: John Springer and Andrew Dul
• Introduced on PPML in January 2014 (ARIN-prop-196)
• This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN Public Policy Consultation
• See presentation and transcript links above for details

John Springer continued with the presentation of the proposal. John presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• This is substantially similar to a previously discussed proposal (2013-7)
• Request for community input – is there a need to collect and analyze this information

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• If 2013-7 were adopted, this proposal will be rendered null
• There were no additional comments from the floor

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-5: Remove 7.2 Lame Delegations

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: John Springer, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal.

• Advisory Council shepherds: Stacy Hughes and Robert Seastrom
• Introduced on PPML in January 2014 (ARIN-prop-197)
• This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN Public Policy Consultation.
• See presentation and transcript links above for details

John Springer continued with the presentation of the proposal. John presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• An alternate service to RPKI is reliant on reverse DNS, walking away from this impacts that potential option
• Removing this doesn’t change current operational practice, but it sounds like there might be reasons why we need to do this differently
• There was a past request for clarity on the term “lame” that is needed to implement this as currently written.
• Lame needs a canonical definition if ARIN is to keep this policy – there are business implications to stripping the DNS of “lame” servers

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-6: Remove 7.1 (Maintaining IN-ADDRs)

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: John Springer, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal.

• Advisory Council shepherds: Stacy Hughes and Robert Seastrom
• Introduced on PPML in January 2014 (ARIN-prop-198)
• This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN Public Policy Consultation.
• See presentation and transcript links above for details

John Springer continued with the presentation of the proposal. John presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• If we remove both 7.1 and 7.2 are we removing all guidance on IN-ADDR for IPv4
• Reverse DNS is an important part of the services that ARIN provides.so it is appropriate to include in the NRPM
• If address holders are responsible for be authoritative on their address space, then they should be authoritative for the zone
• Text is out of date, but updating is more appropriate than removal

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-7: Section 4.4 Micro Allocation Conservation Update

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Dan Alexander, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal.

• Advisory Council shepherds: Andrew Dul and Robert Seastrom
• Introduced on PPML in January 2014 (ARIN-prop-200)
• This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN Public Policy Consultation.
• See presentation and transcript links above for details

Dan Alexander continued with the presentation of the proposal. Dan presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Raise minimum IXP requirement from two to three operators
• Concerns that this could have negative impact on some entities in the region
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• There is an accepted community IXP standard that defines an IXP as including three parties
• In the ARIN region there are not a lot of IXPs, this policy is to encourage conservation and help develop more successful IXPs in the region
• This oversteps the scope of the NRPM, the Board should be defining the status of organizations with regard to establishing their billing category (ISP, End-user, etc.)
• The way this is written could have implications for other types of organization, not just IXPs

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Proposals (193, 199 and 201)

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: John Sweeting, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposals.

• Advisory Council shepherds will be assigned if these proposals become Draft Policies
• This is the first discussion of these proposals at an ARIN Public Policy Consultation
• See presentation and transcript links above for details

John Sweeting continued with the presentation of the proposals. John started by explaining what the status “proposal” indicates. They are all still in text development with the AC and author; they will likely end up on the Agenda for ARIN 33.

• Proposal 193: Alignment of 8.3 Needs Requirements to Reality of Business
• Proposal 199: Resolve Conflict Between RSA and 8.2 Utilization Requirements
• Proposal 201: Remove Sections 4.6 and 4.7

Highlights:

• Brief introduction of proposals193 & 199
• Rationale for the proposal 201
• Overview of text (proposal 201)
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Proposal- 201 Discussion highlights:

• Can’t 4.6 be used by Legacy address holders to return space to ARIN? Should this be revised to mitigate risk instead of removed
• It seems like there still may be cases that these policies can be useful for
• Neither policy has been exercised in the past 5 years.
• Suspension was appropriate and removal of both policies was justified

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Closing Announcements and Adjournment

Speaker: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Transcript

John Curran thanked everyone for their participation and encouraged them to plan on attending ARIN 33 in Chicago in April. He also invited attendees to find an AC member if they would like to discuss other policy ideas and that a room has been reserved and will be available for this purpose for the rest of the afternoon.